For Actors: Clinic Archives

July 29, 2012

Auditioning – From the Director’s Viewpoint
a Q&A with Ben Stoner, Crystal Lake South High School

Part 1 - Preparation

Performers Parent: Do you get asked a lot of questions about auditioning?
Ben Stoner: We talk about it as a program all the time, but some kids, especially those who don’t know us personally, might not feel comfortable coming to us directly for answers. It’s in the curriculum for drama lit (Dramatic Literature, a class at CLS) – we don’t always have time for it, but when we do, the kids feel like they have a nonpolitical forum to ask me questions. That’s a really cool thing. This interview could go quite a long way to answer those questions that kids really want to know but don’t feel like they have an objective place to ask.

Performers Parent: Kids who are looking at auditioning – they don’t really know what you’re looking for. They don’t really know how they stack up against anybody else. They don’t know what you (or any director) have in mind – who they think they’re going to cast. We have played cast the musical – we’ve been spectacularly wrong.
Ben: That’s nice to hear. That means the kids are probably wrong too. Auditioning is a delicate process. Everybody has his or her own idea of the perfect cast. Ultimately, the only one whose idea really matters is the director. In the fall or spring plays, we cast mostly by ourselves (fellow CLS teacher Colleen Cameron directs one show each year), and for the musical it’s cast mostly by committee. I mean, my team (director, music director, choreographer) ultimately will go with my choice, but there’s quite a bit of discussion that results. I have the belief at this point in my career that there is no way to shake the presumed criticism of favoritism, or precasting, and I can tell students and I can tell parents until I’m blue in the face that it’s just not true. We want what’s best for our students, what’s best for our program, and what’s best for our show. And not necessarily in that order. I know that casting a kid might be the best thing for him, but if it’s not the best for the show or our program, I don’t believe that’s a positive choice for anyone else.

There is the case where a student has proven him or herself such a hard worker that you can see them being effective in a place even if they don’t prove it in a specific audition or callback, but that’s a pretty rare circumstance. It really, for me, comes down to what I see in the audition and callback room. I think cries of favoritism and precasting and politics are a parent’s way of coping with the difficult decision that has been made. I certainly have been on the other side of it, almost more than I have been as a director, and I know how much it hurts when you don’t get what you want, it’s not about me, but I don’t think parents and students know how much I understand what it means to that kid or how much they wanted it or how hard they worked for it. When it comes right down to it, none of that really matters. It’s all about how can I put on the best show. What benefits our program ultimately benefits our students.

PP: Let’s talk about some of the mechanics. This is an article and site geared toward parents who are at a minimum interested, and at the most case "stage parents" toward their children and their children’s activities. Let’s say a parent has a child, maybe a young child, who’s interested in an audition for, say, CYT (now Spotlight Theatre). What should the student be doing ahead of time to prepare for the audition?
B: I think the best thing actors can do is familiarize themselves with the show, through whatever resources are available to them. Unfortunately, in today’s age, students believe that learning the show translates to “going on YouTube and finding whatever clips I can find.”

PP: And do you think that’s helpful?
B: I don’t think it’s a bad supplement, but I think it’s a poor choice to call it research. I think the absolute best first step is to find a copy of the play and read it, and if it’s a musical, find a copy of the play and read it and listen to it. Copies of musicals in print are very difficult to come by, but there are cast recordings, and in many cases, multiple cast recordings of almost any musical a high school will do. It’s a student’s responsibility to learn that show, to listen to every song, and I don’t mean learn every note in case you should be called back. But I think it’s irresponsible of a student to come to callback and say, “Oh, I’ve never seen this song before, never heard it before, don’t know what I’m doing,” because you can be sure someone in that room HAS heard it before, has done that work, and to pigeon hole yourself in the one song, in the one role you want desperately, again, is irresponsible.

I recommend getting a copy of the script, getting a copy of the music, listening to the recording ad nauseum, seeing a production of the show live if possible. In some cases, there are film adaptations of plays and musicals. Again, I don’t think that’s a bad choice, but it’s the wrong choice for the only step you take for preparing yourself. And I would put YouTube as the last rung. Part of that is because I’m old school and I grew up in a time when we didn’t have YouTube. The times I’ve used it as a resource for directing have been limited in terms of benefit. I don’t think there’s much there. I don’t think I’m going to learn much by listening to someone else sing a song from a show I’m directing.

For instance, like in Drowsy Chaperone (CLS’s 2012 musical production), now that there are Broadway shows that have been pirated, and you can catch a glimpse, it’s kind of neat to see the original, keeping in mind the unlimited resources and talents and so forth that those productions have. It can give you some ideas. But again, I feel like that is the fallback that students use – it’s easy and instant. I understand that desire, but it’s not research, and it’s not the student doing the all the work he or she can to prepare himself.

PP: So they’ve studied and prepared. In terms of parental help for the preparation, assuming you have a child who will let you be involved in this, what can a parent do and, more importantly, what should the parent NOT do? B: In terms of preparation, I feel like I’ve never witnessed parental support in terms of auditioning firsthand, but I’ve heard a lot of stories, indirectly witnessed exchanges. I think kids need realistic expectations. So I think it would be difficult – and cause part of the disappointment that sometimes happens – for a student to prepare for an audition and be told by everyone that they’re “perfect for that role,” that the director cannot possibly make any other choice but to give the student that role. And I think parents are probably, and this is speculation, pretty tough offenders, because a parent wants to be supportive, and wants to encourage their student. And yet telling their kid that the director would be foolish not to give them the role is probably not the most beneficial advice. So whether or not that happens, you know…

I don’t know how comfortable parents would feel asking for students to “audition” for them, I don’t know how comfortable students would be presenting their audition for their parents. But I think, and I talk about this in speech class, in classes all the time, the more you practice something the more comfortable you’re going to be, and ultimately, the better you’re going to do. So I feel like the more sets of eyes you can get on your audition – and take feedback with a grain of salt – the better off you’ll be. If you can sift through to the really good honest feedback, maybe it’s just “I can’t hear you, I can’t understand you, you need to take your face out of the script,” if it’s basic stuff like that, a parent could see that, a sibling could see that, a friend could see that. So maybe those people aren’t trained in theatre or directing, but they could see some of the fundamentals.


PP: For example, when (my son) Greg was auditioning for the musicals, I would have him sing the piece to me that he had planned to sing, and we would work on phrasing and movement. You know, I’ve done a little of that, but not all parents have. We’d work on phrases or personality coming through, or with the monologues, we’d talk about who is the character and what are they doing. Even if a parent doesn’t know anything about it, can they say, “Who is your character? What are they doing? What do you know about them?”
B: Absolutely, and that’s where reading the script comes in, because a student should be able to answer those questions. If a student doesn’t familiarize himself with the script, then they can’t answer those questions. And then they’re given these sides (lines from the script), where they have to make choices that are uninformed. So, that’s the reason why I say, study, study, study. As far as parents are concerned, if a parent has the ability to understand textual material and can ask questions and can identify strengths or holes in an audition, that’s wonderful.

There are opportunities, however, to train in long-term preparation for auditions as well. If you can find – and in this area it’s a little tough – an acting coach or a voice teacher who will work on your audition – you know, some voice teachers are going to work on the voice, and others will work on the voice and will also work on the total package of an audition. There are voice teachers right here in Crystal Lake who will work with a student on their monologue or staging, so it’s not just a flatline. Auditioning for a show is different from auditioning for a choir, say, because as you’ve already pointed out, it’s really about how you can communicate a character through dialogue and through song. When we’re watching these auditions, we’re watching for all of that to happen. We’re watching for a student’s ability to communicate, to have presence, and energy, and project, but also create the essence, or at least the supposed essence of who that character is for us. Which is sometimes difficult for actors, because actors don’t know what the directors want to see, and that’s a challenge.

PP: If you have a student who came in with a take on a character that was not necessarily your take, but you could see that they had the potential to go in the direction you were thinking of, or that they were going in a direction you hadn’t considered, you’re not necessarily going to eliminate that student from consideration even though they’re not looking at it from the same direction you are.
B: I want to see flexibility. I don’t expect to see anyone coming in with an opening-night performance. I’ve seen it happen, and those people more often than not end up with roles, but keep in mind that auditioning is the beginning of the process, and I want to see that a student has potential for growth and maturation into this character. And in some cases, if a student is making bold choices, I might think they’re wrong, but at least I think they have a lack of inhibition that allows them to make those bold choices. Whereas, sometimes, students might be particularly reserved and quiet, and their “take” on a character is really no more than standing on a stage and saying the lines out loud. That’s not really a take on a character, and you’re not really showing me what I need to see. But if I bring you to a callback, and say let’s try to go in this direction, that kid’s going to get the chance to show me how flexible they are, how they can stretch and ultimately show me whether or not I’m going to have the potential to work with them and they’ll get it to where I think it ought to be by opening night. Elasticity is a huge part of it, and that’s often not evident – you can’t really see that in an audition very well. You can see it in callbacks, and that’s typically where I would do that kind of work.

PP: How much does it affect your decision to consider what you know of a student either through past performances or through class -- if the student is or isn’t a hard worker, is or isn’t a diva?
B: I think I’m pretty good at having an open mind. I know that I don’t precast. I know that every student deserves consideration – every student has walked into an audition at one time or another as a stranger to me. At least as a stranger on stage, even if I’ve known them off stage or in class. So, I don’t really buy this argument that I sometimes hear, indirectly, “the same people always get the roles.” If you see a kid who’s been in three or four shows in a row, the kid still had a first show that they were cast in. If you really look at those roles, he probably hasn’t had a lead in all those shows, but there are sometimes – moments – where you see a kid who has been cast in the chorus or in a small role – who comes in as a senior, poised to focus on theater. They come in and audition for all three plays (during the school year) and get cast in all three plays. We hear, “they always get cast” – well, they didn’t always get cast, prior to this year, but people have a really short recall sometimes.

As far as how does what I know about a kid enter into the audition – hey, I’m human. I can’t eliminate all that I know about a kid. If I know that a kid is going to work really, really hard, because I’ve watched them work really, really hard, and apply themselves and be a positive force in a classroom or a hallway or a rehearsal room, I’m going to want to work with that kid again. If I know that a kid is lazy, or not going to completely apply himself, if I know that a kid isn’t easy to work with, it’s hard for me to put that completely aside and look only at talent. Now, talent is going to be an incredible persuader when a director is looking at an actor who has obvious talent but no social skills, but it’s a delicate balancing act, and it’s impossible to remove that from my assessment of a student during an audition.

PP: So trying to give parents some direction in how to encourage their student – say you have a student who’s very interested in the theatre, and has gotten maybe a little role, or a non-speaking or a chorus role, and really likes it, but is getting frustrated because they’re not getting the bigger roles. Beyond “let’s take a summer class, let’s get you a voice coach,” is it important to encourage your kid to stay involved in the program somehow – work on crew, work as an usher, just so that child stays in front of you?
B: Without question. I feel that the more I become familiar with someone, the more excited I’m going to be when they walk in the room to audition for me. I get excited to see a stranger audition, I look forward to seeing those kids I kind of know audition, but if I know a kid, and know a kid isn’t in it just for themselves, who cares about theatre so much so that they’re going to devote themselves in any way they can, then I think that it can do nothing but help them in the long run. It makes common sense. But if I feel that a kid is time after time getting rejected in their eyes, and they don’t make any attempt to improve or become an important and vital part of the program, it seems, perceptively, like the kid is only in it for themselves and for a role. If a kid is cast in the chorus, and maybe the kid has done three shows in a chorus and they’re not getting leading roles, and all they do is complain and show up late and not show up for their build hours… There are all kinds of ways you can show that “I’m not in this for anybody but myself, and I’m going to complain until I get a larger role.”

PP: And that’s a pretty sure way to not get the shot.
B: Who wants to be around anybody who’s a drain on your energy? That drain can come in all sorts of forms. A positive, helpful, team attitude goes a long way.

August 12, 2012

Auditioning From the Director’s Viewpoint
a Q&A with Ben Stoner, Crystal Lake South High School

Part 2: Managing Expectations

This is Part 2 of a conversation with Ben Stoner, theatre director for Crystal Lake South High School, on the topic of auditioning. Please see Part 1 of our conversation in our Clinic Archive, under “For Actors.”

Performers Parent: How have you dealt with parents, who after casting, if their kid didn’t get any role, or didn’t get one the parent felt was worthy of the child? What do you want the parents to know about how you would prefer them (the parent) to behave?
Ben Stoner: Ultimately, it doesn’t do anyone much good for me to talk to a parent about why their kid didn’t get a role. It helps the kid a ton if that kid comes to me and asks why they didn’t get a role. The worst possible offense is for a parent to come to me – whether their attitude is good or not – and ask why their kid didn’t get cast, and say “don’t tell them I talked to you. I don’t want them to know I talked to you.” Who is that benefitting? I’m a parent myself, though I’ve never witnessed my student go through this – as a parent, you want to comfort your child, it is our instinct. If you want answers so that you can better strategize how to comfort your child, but if your child is not interested in a face-to-face opportunity to better understand why he or she didn’t get the role, then I don’t know that it benefits the parent or me to sit down and talk about it.

Let me say, our parents are really great, and if they’re not understanding behind our backs, they’re certainly understanding to our faces. I rarely hear from frustrated parents. I will occasionally get an email, and that email may look like, “Mary is really struggling with this decision, she’s really upset about, is there anything you can say that would help us console her with this?” My response always is, have Mary come talk to me. I want to talk to her. I want her to hear from my mouth why she didn’t get cast. It’s been a long time since I’ve had to have a face-to-face parent meeting, it happens sometimes, and most of the times, parents are responsible and come in curious and leave satisfied. I’ve had pretty angry parents, pretty clear in my face, and usually it’s a senior’s parents, who don’t have to worry about future decisions. It’s been pretty rare, though.

The majority of parents just want to know how to handle their seemingly inconsolable child, who is just devastated. To the kid it’s just the end of their life when they don’t get what they wanted. And I think sometimes the plays are harder than the musicals, because usually a chorus is pretty big and you can give lots of kids opportunities, but you have a play (with a small cast) and you have lots of kids who don’t get any role. I don’t know, maybe for a kid sometimes that’s easier because you can just walk away from it, where as in a chorus every day you’re reminded that you didn’t get a featured role and you’re just in the chorus. But as a performer, I always got a lot of joy from being in a chorus.

PP: Is there anything else you want parents and kids to know about the audition process? Do you think the actual – I signed up for an audition and here’s my time – is pretty straightforward, or is there more they ought to know?
B: Our audition materials are put together in such away to answer any and all possible questions. We want – it’s hard for parents and students to understand this – but as educators, we want this to be a positive experience for our students. We want to give opportunities to our students. Because it’s through these opportunities our students achieve success, these students find ways of becoming better rounded and stronger students in so many ways. So we want these opportunities for kids. We want to encourage them to audition. We’re trying to put together a packet of audition materials that’s comprehensive and gives them the best understanding of the audition with the greatest possibility of success.

But I can’t speak for every program. I’ve heard from other students and parents that kids don’t know what to expect, they show up and have to figure it out as they go, but I’d like to have students know that’s not how it works here. We announce our entire next season in June, we have audition meetings well in advance, we try to give them what they need to know, for the musical we try to make it two weeks because there’s music they have to learn. For the plays, we don’t have that kind of luxury, especially in fall; our meeting is like a day or two before the actual audition.

PP: Do you think that students going into an audition for the first or even second time should seek out more experienced friends, and ask what is this about, what can I do to be more successful?
B: I think the more you can gain in understanding the better you are. And I think students who have been through that particular program – a student who has been doing CYT for 15 shows will be a great asset for someone trying out for their first CYT show. Because they know how to do it. And my understanding is that those auditions are pretty much the same every time. Our auditions aren’t always exactly the same, but for the most part they’re similar year to year and show to show. If you have a sibling or a friend who has done a number of shows or at least been through the audition process, absolutely, seek their advice. But I hear a lot of things too that I don’t know is the best info – I hear “freshmen never get cast, so don’t expect to get in the show.” I think students sometimes think they know how it works, but their perspective isn’t always how it works.

For example, I and my colleagues don’t think there is any distinctive segregation class to class in who doesn’t get cast. A senior is no more likely to be cast just because they’re a senior than a freshman is because they’re a freshman. In fact, grade matters very little to me in the casting process, and I think it’s something that people think means a lot. Last fall (a freshman) came in and I was thrilled to give her a role. I didn’t cast her because she was a freshman, and I didn’t NOT cast her because she was a freshman – that’s ludicrous. She was perfect for the role, she was exactly what I was looking for, and in the rehearsal process, she brought tons of positive energy, always thrilled to be at rehearsal, always went out of her way to say hello to me in the hallway. That’s the kind of kid I want to have in the program. So all she’s done is build up that resume for herself going into sophomore year. But I’m not going to say that her sophomore or junior or senior year is going to be more or less profitable in terms of roles and opportunities than her freshman year.

PP: It’ll depend on the role and her fit.
B: And (she) could have had the greatest audition in the universe, but she would never have been cast in certain roles, and it’s not because she’s a freshman, it’s because she looks so young in contrast to all of my older students. So there are lots of variables to being cast in certain shows. Here’s a perfect example – Nick Eversman, a former Nick Eversman in MissingCLS student who has now been in movies and TV shows. He was phenomenal in (TV show starring Ashley Judd) Missing, 13 episodes, I watched the whole season. I was so proud of him. And to watch him every day, you’d think “to have had him in high school, what you couldn’t have done with a talent like that” – Nick looked 12 from moment he entered CLS to the moment he got out. He had very few opportunities here –he didn’t sing very much -- he sang, but he didn’t have a mature look to him. So there were very few options to where I could put him. I could see how talented he was, but there were very few places for him. It wouldn’t work to have a romantic couple where one looks 18 and one looks 14, it just doesn’t work that way. So there are lots of challenges to the casting process.

And I get a lot of parents who think that their seniors have earned a leading role, period. My kid has done everything for this program for four years, and has never done anything but the chorus, and they DESERVE a leading role their senior year. And you know what, they probably do, but that doesn’t mean I have one to give them. They haven’t earned it in the audition, and the parent doesn’t see that. They see the four years of hard work the kid has done, and then to see a leading role go to someone else…

In Drowsy Chaperone, a lot of our leads were seniors, as often happens, because our seniors are often the most poised, the most experienced, and the most confident through that audition process. That says a lot. But we had a couple of newcomers in roles – we had a freshman and a senior who had never auditioned for a role – we had kids in the chorus who had done two or three or four years worth of shows at South – and are those decisions difficult? Yes, because I care about those kids. But to say the freshman who’s getting that role after their first audition here at South doesn’t deserve the role because it’s their first audition – I don’t think that’s fair either.

PP: You’re going to announce the 2012-2013 shows next week (at the June drama banquet). The first show doesn’t come up for three months after that, and the last show doesn’t come up for nine months.
B: Nine months from announcement to audition.

PP: Is it too early to look at that last show for a kid who thinks, “I want to be involved”?
B: Of course it’s not too early! The reason that we announce our shows – there are many reasons – but the major reason is so our students can start to prepare. Honestly, the students who are most serious about it will. And that puts a kid who is lazy or doesn’t want to put much energy into it until three days before; it puts that kid in a hole. Other area schools don’t announce their shows until two weeks before the audition. They have very strong talent, strong auditions, but those kids couldn’t possibly be as prepared as kids who have five months to learn the show, and learn the music.

Ben Stoner has been directing theatre at Crystal Lake South High School for 15 years, where he has also been teaching English since 2000. His musical and non-musical directing credits there include over 25 productions, including four selected for performance at the Illinois High School Theatre Festival. He was also honored this past year with the opportunity to direct the 2012 Illinois High School All-State Production of Almost, Maine at Illinois State University. In addition to undergraduate degrees from Culver-Stockton College, Mr. Stoner also holds a Masters Degree in Directing and Dramaturgy from the Chicago College of Performing Arts at Roosevelt University. He lives in West Dundee with his wife and two daughters.